UPDATED
Liu Xiaobo got the Nobel prize for Peace! Kudos to him and kudos to little Norway! It did not let itself be intimidated as other countries have.
很好!
¡Muy bien!
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As a Latin American and native speaker of Spanish I am very happy Vargas Llosa has got the Nobel Prize of Literature. Vargas has produced a significant amount of masterpieces of the Spanish language. My favourite book by Vargas is La Fiesta del Chivo, but there are many others that were a joy to me. Vargas has also been very vocal when denouncing demagogues and dictators that for so long have been a hindrance for Latin America's prosperity. He has been an outspoken critic of the current military president Venezuela has. Now, I leave it to Daniel to write more extensively about Vargas.
Today I want to call your attention to a candidate for the Nobel prize who is in jail because he believes in freedom and democracy. That writer is Mr Liu Xiabo.
Mr Liu was nominated to this year's prize by such figures as Vaclav Havel, the Dalai Lama and Desmond Tutu. He has been in prison since 2008 because he signed, together with hundreds of other intellectuals, a petition to the Chinese government asking for more freedom and democracy for his country. The Chinese regime did not tolerate that. Liu was deemed a traitor of the "fatherland". He was condemned to eleven years in prison and 2 years of privation of political rights. He is currently serving sentence. The Chinese government has openly pressurized the Swedish government not to give the prize to Liu. Ma Zhaoxu, spokesperson for the Chinese Foreign Ministry had suggested giving the prize to dissident Liu was "totally wrong".
I believe Vargas Llosa more than deserved the prize he got today. I have to say I haven't read anything by Mr Liu apart from a translation of that manifest. I don't know if I would like his books if I ever get a translation of them. What I do know is Vargas would not mind that we also think this day about Mr Liu. Here you can read one of Amnesty International's appeals to the Chinese government to release the Chinese writer. I support that release.
Liu Xiaobo is an American spy!
ReplyDeleteLiu on the take from US government is a fact. Even our own law (FARA) states financial sponsorship by foreignty entity, in part or whole, substantiates foreign agent status.
Evidence of Liu taking over a million dollars from US government is publically available – in NED’s China grant publication. Liu started two political organizations, ICPC and Mingzhu Zhongguo, to received funding from a quasi-government entity funded by the US congress.
Come on, this is double standard. Would an American on the take from China advocating abolition of US constitution ever be considered for the Nobel Peace Prize? Heck no.
I am an American spy.
ReplyDeleteAt least that is what the Venezuelan government would say.
I am sure there are US spies in China as there are Chinese spies in the USA or in the EU. I doubt very much Mr Liu is a spy even if he really got support from an organization promoting democracy or what the US congressmen think is democracy or whatever (or, as the Chinese government would say, promoting the destruction of the People's Republic). Do you know what a "spy" actually is or does?
If you read carefully what I wrote, I am not saying I want Liu to have the Nobel prize. I am saying I want people to think of him because of the situation he is in now. I stated I haven't read his literature and I don't even know if I like it.
I was saying he was sent to prison for his desire for freedom and change and he should be free.
The Swedish academy has given Nobel prize for literature to people that in my opinion should not have got it. Still, it is pretty stupid for any government to try to put pressure on the Swedish academy to take this or that decision about literature because of political matters. It shows how little they know about human rights.
As for a US American proposing to tear to pieces the constitution (which Liu did not exactly say, but then you don't read but what the party honchos say): anyone, whether a Swedish or a Venezuelan or a Congolese or a Chinese or a US citizen should be able to say that and that has no business to play in the decision about their literary creations.
Stating the rejection for the way a document was formulated should not lead to exclusion. Plenty of people have done that in the West. Don't believe your leaders who say this would lead to China returning to pre-Qing conditions.
Actually, the proposal for the Nobel prize would be for peace, as I see now from the news.
ReplyDeleteBut whether it is for chemistry or literature or peace, a state putting someone in prison for proposing reforms does not show much understanding about human rights.
Hats off to you, Kepler!
ReplyDeleteYou remembered Liu Xiaobo, a principled and brave man, before we all knew that he will actually be honored with the Nobel Prize.
Thanks, Kolya, but I did nothing.
ReplyDeleteWe all need to show there is no compromise with human rights and justice. This is not a Western, but a universal thing.
I heard now the words from Norway's Minister of Foreign Affairs on BBC. He said the right things.
I hope Mr Liu will be set free soon.
Liu Xiaobo is a traitor to China and the Chinese people.
ReplyDeleteHe only believes in reform in weakening china for the Western powers that are his paymasters.
Mi,
ReplyDeleteYou really got brainwashed from early on.
In the seventies children in China were told they had to study hard because they were privileged, "children in Europe had to work to live and could not study". And children believed it. Now it is harder for them to believe it as they know a bit more at least what they see in the streets, in the cities in all of Europe.
Still, the Chinese "communist" party keeps brainwashing you in other ways.
You don't put in prison someone for signing a petition. That shows how little you understand of human rights. The big red honcho party leaders are telling you that if you don't obey what they say, you are being "traitors of China", China would return to XIX century conditions, Chinese will be all suffering from opium...or they tell you that if you don't follow THEIR wishes (the wishes of a party that is no longer communist, not even socialist) China will split in a lot of countries and there will be a civil war as before the Qing dynasty. And they play and play in the most shameless way with your fears.
It is very telling you are afraid of a letter and a write. It is a shame for you. By threatening people you are doing it worse for you.
Stop letting others think for you. Think for yourself.
Liu Xiaobo is a traitor. This is what he said: "(It would take) 300 years of colonialism. In 100 years of colonialism, Hong Kong has changed to what we see today. With China being so big, of course it would take 300 years of colonialism for it to be able to change to how Hong Kong is today. I have my doubts as to whether 300 years would be enough."
ReplyDeleteIf a Frenchman or Pole had said the same about Hitler's imperialism they would be denounced as traitors. Similarly Liu Xiaobo is a traitor
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You really got brainwashed from early on.
In the seventies children in China were told they had to study hard because they were privileged, "children in Europe had to work to live and could not study". And children believed it. Now it is harder for them to believe it as they know a bit more at least what they see in the streets, in the cities in all of Europe.
Still, the Chinese "communist" party keeps brainwashing you in other ways.
You don't put in prison someone for signing a petition. That shows how little you understand of human rights. The big red honcho party leaders are telling you that if you don't obey what they say, you are being "traitors of China", China would return to XIX century conditions, Chinese will be all suffering from opium...or they tell you that if you don't follow THEIR wishes (the wishes of a party that is no longer communist, not even socialist) China will split in a lot of countries and there will be a civil war as before the Qing dynasty. And they play and play in the most shameless way with your fears.
It is very telling you are afraid of a letter and a write. It is a shame for you. By threatening people you are doing it worse for you.
Stop letting others think for you. Think for yourself.
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Mi Qiao Lin said...
Liu Xiaobo is a traitor to China and the Chinese people.
He only believes in reform in weakening china for the Western powers that are his paymasters.
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It was written:
"... The Chinese government has openly pressurized the Swedish government not to give the prize to Liu."
This price has little to do with Sweden. It's the norweigan matter.
Mi Qiao Lin said...
"Liu Xiaobo is a traitor to China and the Chinese people."
Your thinking.. to tell you the truth, it's not your own thoughts, but what have been in the process of your brainwashing.
Think the opposite, always, then you will see thins how the really are.
Then , what about Liu Xiaobo and Charta 08?
It's done and controlled by the CCP. Other prisoners have given names to Liu, called him things, to say that is not what we believe a real prisoner. He has a good life, golden boy.
The evil communist party have different ways for the future - the do not want to die and be dragged to the court for their awful crimes. The CCP is a maffia. They is not China, they do not represent China or the chinese people. The people is their hostage.
You could read:
Behind Liu Xiaobo’s Nobel Peace Prize
http://www.chinauncensored.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=258:behind-liu-xiaobos-nobel-peace-prize-&catid=29:think-tank&Itemid=74
Here is an open letter signed by these Chinese dissidents
http://www.zimbio.com/Nobel+Peace+Prize/articles/o6d0cL4zrqp/Nobel+Prize+Nominee+Or+Traitor
Please exuse me for my earlier post. I did a mistake when copy and paste... It was only this below I wanted to write:
ReplyDeleteIt was written:
"... The Chinese government has openly pressurized the Swedish government not to give the prize to Liu."
This price has little to do with Sweden. It's the norweigan matter.
Mi Qiao Lin said...
"Liu Xiaobo is a traitor to China and the Chinese people."
Your thinking.. to tell you the truth, it's not your own thoughts, but what have been in the process of your brainwashing.
Think the opposite, always, then you will see thins how the really are.
Then , what about Liu Xiaobo and Charta 08?
It's done and controlled by the CCP. Other prisoners have given names to Liu, called him things, to say that is not what we believe a real prisoner. He has a good life, golden boy.
The evil communist party have different ways for the future - the do not want to die and be dragged to the court for their awful crimes. The CCP is a maffia. They is not China, they do not represent China or the chinese people. The people is their hostage.
You could read:
Behind Liu Xiaobo’s Nobel Peace Prize
http://www.chinauncensored.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=258:behind-liu-xiaobos-nobel-peace-prize-&catid=29:think-tank&Itemid=74
Here is an open letter signed by these Chinese dissidents
http://www.zimbio.com/Nobel+Peace+Prize/articles/o6d0cL4zrqp/Nobel+Prize+Nominee+Or+Traitor
KE,
ReplyDeleteYou are taking his words completely out of context and interpreting them as you want. Be it, but stop, like the other Chinese here, saying "Poles/French would be considered".
They can say what that if they wanted and they are not put into prison.
Just take a visit to Europe and ask around.
What he meant is that the Chinese have been brainwashed for a long time now and a lot have no idea about human rights. He is not for China to be a colony of the EU or the USA and anyway, that is absolutely unreal by any measure at this stage.
But go ahead, just join the Chauvinistic sentiments that is still used by Chinese leaders to control the masses.
One thing is to be for an independent China and another to suppress freedom of expression and turn people's words against themselves. Let Liu defend himself. Let him answer to this.
I think open real debates would do China (as well as Venezuela) a lot of good.
Kepler, t's all a charade.
ReplyDeleteThe party have their hands behind Charta 08, an Liu is not what we think.
The police drived Lius wife to the prison so she could take o hom, tell hiom that he got the price.
If Gao Zhisheng have been awarded the price, do you think the police have given that service. No, she have been in danger. And Gao is where, and is being tortured. Gaos Zhisheng have seen the party for what it is.
Have your read the links?
The CCP is not China. CCP is a a spector from the West.
I have translated a Swedish article via google translate:
ReplyDeleteThe peace prize is criticized by exiled dissidents
The price can play the Communist Party in the hands
Epoch Times Sweden 10/10/2010 23:00
This year's Peace Prize to criticism from both flanks. The Chinese communist regime has responded with strong censorship in China, international protests and threats against Norway on deteriorating relations. It was not exactly unexpected.
On the opposite side, the other Chinese dissidents such as Wei Jingsheng, a resident of North America for several years and was known to have demanded the democratization of China in 1978. Something he was 18 years in Chinese prison for. Wei Liu criticized for being too cooperative with the Chinese regime. This is perhaps more surprising.
Although 14 other exiled dissidents have criticized that Mr Liu, the price, they argue that he is unworthy. In a letter to the Norwegian Nobel Committee that was sent days before the announcement criticizing the choice of Mr Liu as laureates, among other things because they believe that he slanders second-democracy activists, has abandoned the persecuted Falun Gong practitioners and that he is too soft on the Chinese leaders, The New York Times.
Among those who signed the letter includes Zhang Guoting, writers who sat 22 years in Chinese prison but now lives in Denmark, also Bian Hexiang, New York-based member of the Central Committee of the Chinese Social Democratic Party and Lu Decheng who was jailed for throwing paint-filled eggs of the large Maoporträttet in Tiananmen Square in Beijing, who now lives in Canada.
The letter writers argue that there are other Chinese who are much more deserving to receive the Nobel Peace Prize. Such is human rights lawyer Gao Zhisheng, who has defended, among other oppressed Christians, Falun Gong practitioners and people who had their homes confiscated by the regime. He sent several open letters to the country's top leaders to protest against conditions. Gao has been detained several times in recent years and has given evidence on the inhumane torture he suffered.
Forts...
Forts, part2:
ReplyDelete....
Mr Liu may be the prize for having created the so-called democracy petition Charter 08 (which refers to the Charter 77 who advocated reforms in communist Czechoslovakia in the 1980s). It must have been written by the same people within the Chinese Communist Party that produced the current Chinese Constitution. But they needed a suitable dissidents to spread and give it credibility. So there was Liu Xiaobo complete and put his name in the document. It writes Jiang Pin on the website, the China Uncensored.
The purpose of the Charter 08 is under Jiang Pins sources have been to counter the series "Nine Commentaries on the Communist Party, which Epoch Times published in 2004, and has contributed to a large number of Chinese people have shunned the party.
Charter 08 was a few thousand signatures over the Internet, before it was taken down by the regime. But many Chinese democracy advocates were less impressed by the manifest, and said it was vaguely written, without any real demands on the communist party relinquishes power. And without that change can be no meaningful change happen in China, they claimed.
It has been suggested that the fact that Liu, eleven years in prison is proof that he is a genuine democracy and human rights activist. In the talking tasks Jiang Pins article on China Uncensored. The imprisonment must have been a part of the process to give Mr Liu and Charter 08 as much attention as possible.
Jiang Pin talked to a government representative at the beginning of the year, which said that the party has invested huge money to ensure that Mr Liu may Nobel Peace Prize, and why it should have been: "Unless Mr Liu Nobel Peace Prize, then the [Chinese Communist Party] did not release him! "
The fact that Mr Liu may peace prize does so, the Chinese government through a detour save his own skin, by limiting the Nine commentary as an influence in China with the spread of Charter 08, says Jiang Pin.
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The CCP have worked hard for this success, they do the "high five" now.
The translation is maybe not so good in all parts. One example is:
ReplyDeleteThe fact that Mr Liu may peace prize does so, the Chinese government through a detour save his own skin, by limiting the Nine commentary as an influence in China with the spread of Charter 08, says Jiang Pin.
Instead it should of course be:
... save it's own skin...
It's all about the "Nine commentaries". If they was not published then there would be no Charta 08 or no price for Liu.
http://ninecommentaries.com/
You can give me the Swedish link, I can read Swedish.
ReplyDeleteThanks
Here is the link to the article:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.epochtimes.se/articles/2010/10/10/20071.html
Here is a better translation...
ReplyDeletePeace Prize Criticized by Exiled Dissidents
The price can play into the Communist Party’s hands
Epoch Times Sweden
This year’s Peace Prize has been criticized from both flanks. The Chinese communist regime has responded with strong censorship in China, international protests and threats against Norway on deteriorating relations. It wasn’t exactly unexpected.
On the opposite side stands the other Chinese dissidents, such as Wei Jingsheng, a resident of North America for several years and known to have demanded the democratization of China in 1978. Something he had to spend 18 years in Chinese prison for. Wei criticized Liu Xiaobo for being too cooperative with the Chinese regime. This is perhaps more surprising.
14 other exiled dissidents have also criticized that Liu Xiaobo gets the price since they think that he is unworthy. In a letter to the Norwegian Nobel Committee that was sent the days before the announcement, they were criticizing the choice of Liu Xiaobo as a prizewinner, because, among other things, they believe that he slanders other democracy activists, has abandoned the persecuted Falun Gong practitioners and that he is too soft on the Chinese leaders, according to New York Times.
Among those who signed the letter is Zhang Guoting, a writer who sat 22 years in a Chinese prison but who now lives in Denmark. Also Bian Hexiang, a New York-based member of the Central Committee of the Chinese Social Democratic Party and Lu Decheng, who was jailed for throwing paint-filled eggs on the large Mao portrait in Tiananmen Square in Beijing, and who now lives in Canada.
The writers of the letter says that there are other Chinese people who are much more deserving to receive the Nobel Peace Prize. Such is human rights lawyer Gao Zhisheng, who has defended, among others, oppressed Christians, Falun Gong practitioners and people who had their homes confiscated by the regime. He has sent several open letters to the country’s top leaders to protest against the conditions. Gao has been detained several times in recent years and has given evidence on the inhumane torture he has suffered.
Liu Xiaobo gets the prize, among other things, for having created the so-called democracy petition Charter 08 (which refers to Charter 77 who advocated reforms in communist Czechoslovakia in the 1980′s). It’s supposed to have been written by the same people within the Chinese Communist Party that produced the current Chinese Constitution. But they needed a suitable dissident to spread and give it credibility. Therefor Liu Xiaobo got the task to complete and put his name into the document. Jiang Pin writes this on the website “China Uncensored”.
Please see next entry...
continue...
ReplyDeleteThe purpose of the Charter 08, according to Jiang Pins sources, should have been to counter the series of articles of “Nine Commentaries on the Communist Party”, which Epoch Times published in 2004, and that has contributed to a large number of Chinese people quitting the party.
Charter 08 had a few thousand signatures via Internet before it was taken down by the regime. But many Chinese democracy advocates were less impressed by the manifest, and said it was vaguely written without any real demands on the communist party to relinquish power. And without that change no meaningful change can happen in China, they claimed.
It has been suggested that the fact that Liu Xiaobo got eleven years in prison is a proof to that he is a genuine democracy and human rights activist. Against that talks some information in Jiang Pins article in “China Uncensored”. The imprisonment is supposed to have been a part of the process to give Liu Xiaobo and Charter 08 as much attention as possible.
Jiang Pin talked to a government representative at the beginning of the year, who said that the party has invested huge money to ensure that Liu gets the Nobel Peace Prize, and the reason for that should have been: “Unless Liu Xiaobo gets the Nobel Peace Prize, then it [the Chinese Communist Party] can not release him!”
The fact that Liu Xiaobo gets the Peace Prize means in that case that the Chinese government, through a detour, save its own skin by limiting “Nine Commentaries on the Communist Party” influence in China by spreading Charter 08, says Jiang Pin.
I sincerely don't see how this prize is playing into the so-called Communist party. What do you think of the new letter from retired Apparatchiks demanding the release of Liu and changes to the current system?
ReplyDeleteLiu Xiaobo's Nobel Peace Prize and its Influence in China
ReplyDelete-- Wei Jingsheng's Discussion with VOA's Host Jiang Tian, and Co-guest Gong Xiaoxia
Release Date: October 17, 2010
A few sentences:
Wei Jingsheng: Wei Jingsheng: We all know his attitude against Gao. When people were calling for Gao's release, Liu Xiaobo was not for it. His very good friends did some very bad things on their own website, mocking Gao, etc. Of course he himself did not mock Gao. But this caused a lot of resentment. We have been accepting and tolerating all sorts of pro-democracy movement, but what they did makes people disgusted
Further, after he went to prison, he even said "no enemies", "heart-warming prison management," which is very different from what others felt. Perhaps he received better treatment. But he should know that other pro-democracy activists and others people including rights defenders and ordinary people suffered miserably in the prisons. Look at those people petitioning, they were very badly treated by the police. Liu paid attention to these every day and should know. So he should not praise the “heart-warming prison management”. This statement made us pretty disgusted.
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Wei Jingsheng: I answer that question as why I did not win Nobel. From 1992, I got nominated. But the Communist Party's pressure has been great, at that time the international trend is to support the people against the Chinese Communist Party. But now with more and more closer economic and trade relations, Westerners feel more
and more dependent on China. Now the trend of the world is more agreeable to Liu Xiaobo's policy of peaceful compromises. They think that they can reach a more democratic system through negotiation, like South Africa.
Wei Jingsheng: at least part of the Westerners' view has changed, they think that the Communist Party does not have to be overthrown, instead they wish to altered the Communist regime peacefully. Make it short, they hope that China is relatively stable, in order to ensure their business interests. This is the mainstream of Western thought. U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton expressed that: human rights are not our main issue. This releases a very clear signal -- from the perspective of business interests, the concept of human rights to the Chinese has changed.
Wei Jingsheng: This is the real important reason for these Western officials to talk about human right, although they want to make compromises with the Chinese government. What Xiaoxia said is: the politicians could not shake the basic concepts of people in the Western society. However, political manipulation is there, such
as people criticize that the big businesses companies manipulating American politics more than people. Although this saying maybe a little too much, but basically true. The subtle change of the US attitude toward human rights in China, America's increased compromise to the Chinese government, all illustrate the more and more influence from the business interests.
The complete discussion is here:
http://www.weijingsheng.org/report/report2010/report2010-10/VOAtvWeiJS101017LiuXBprizeA577-W345.htm
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Another article:
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle08.asp?xfile=data/international/2010/October/international_October330.xml§ion=international